The news that there was a play in the works had been around for ages, when did you first start talking about it with Mike?
I think 2009 or 10. Dylan and Evan were going to a local youth theatre that I worked for so in rehearsals I'd go say hi and Mike said one day that we should write a musical.
Was this prior to Vinyl being discussed?
It was roughly around the same time I think. Possibly slightly after. I wasn't supposed to be involved with Vinyl. I did the initial contact with Sara Sugarman. Mike asked me to get on board with Vinyl as there was so much to do.
Was it hard to separate the two projects, both had music to be written, both with an earlier "punky" feel?
Not really. A lot of Vinyl emerged from Mike's early Toilets demos. Most of the rest of Vinyl was written in the mad weekend studio session. I remember James and me working up an idea in one room with other stuff going on elsewhere. A Breed Apart was written in the Chapel. Mike had a lot of it already but I tweaked it with him. I said remember how 68 Guns moved between major and minor chords so let's put a similar sequence into the chorus.
With Oxy Mike and I had some basic ideas which we worked up in my studio. As I said Free Rock and Roll was in this session in a very basic format. Which tells me that the very first writing session for Oxy was just before Vinyl filming.
So....the Vinyl soundtrack was recorded after filming (apart from Free Rock and Roll and a couple of other tunes). Oxy was next worked on once we had started talking to Pete Rowe at the New Wolsey. We had a couple of writing sessions with Paul who we had been introduced to at the Chapel.
Paul is a songwriter himself and plays a mean guitar!
He bought a different vibe to Oxy songs.
What was the original idea for Oxy, was it untitled at the time or was it Peroxide? The suggestion of the leukaemia story line came at the suggestion of Paul Sirett did it not?
Oxy was very early on called Peroxide. We came up with the idea of being a love story. To describe it we said it was a punk Grease. It was based on our experiences in the 1970s being in bands together. Once Paul came onboard he tried rewriting it within our original story. Eventually Oxy evolved. The leukaemia element came about after Paul, Pete Rowe and I had attended an early test screening of Vinyl in London. Mike wasn't with us that day. Paul and Pete had been discussing adding the cancer story to Oxy and asked if Mike would mind. I phoned Mike almost immediately and of course he could see the real world benefits of such a move. Mike said yes and that's when Oxy became something like the final structure.
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
So this is tied up in how we ended up in Ipswich. We had got about 75% down into the story of Peroxide by our fortnightly meets. Then we had both gone off to do other stuff for some months. In the meantime I was sounding out friends of mine who could write the script. A mate of mine in Cardiff came up with a genius look at Oxy but we felt we wanted to stay closer to the original idea. We met up in the cafe at Dyserth waterfall one day and I said we need to move this on or forget it. I had worked for Theatr Clwyd for a while but I knew that Oxy wasn't something for them at the time. However, Pete Rowe who was artistic director at the New Wolsey used to write and direct the rock and roll Panto's every Xmas in Theatr Clwyd. Pete's partner Sarăh Holmes was chief executive at the New Wolsey. I had got to know Sarăh at Theatr Clwd so I emailed to ask her advice. Mike was keen as he loved the Theatr Clwyd Pantos.
And so Sarăh suggested to Pete our idea and Pete invited us down to Ipswich to see his latest work Mods and Rox. Next day we met Pete. he asked us what we thought of last nights show, we loved it by the way, he then asked us what we needed. We said a scriptwriter. He said the writer Paul Sirett was of a similar vibe to us. And so a week or two on and Mike and I met Paul in a Euston coffee shop. We spent an hour with Paul. Back on the train we both said that Paul was obviously the right person to collaborate with. Paul came on board and we spent a bit of time working on Peroxide, drinking beer and going to gigs! It's important to get on the same wavelength. It was a very easy partnership with a great deal of trust between us from day one.
How did the writing progress considering all of your schedules and geographic considerations?
A lot of the songs were realised in the two writing sessions at the Chapel. Particularly Act One. Paul came up from London and we cracked on. We needed to have some tunes to get a flavour of the show. We recorded as we went. Sometimes emailing Smiley a rough back track to which that ruddy genius would play to and send back a drum track. The rest of the writing was more fragmented and centred around my studio. We used some material from the Chapel sessions. Mike and I wrote new stuff. Paul would send up ideas and lyrics. Sometimes I would phone Mike and say give me an hour this week. He would turn up and play bass or guitar or sing or write. Whatever needed doing. Then I would mould and adapt and rewrite until we had all the tunes in a demo form.
During the writing stage had you already received a commitment for it to be staged or did that come later?
Later. I guess we got most of the story sorted and about 70% of the songs into some kind of state before Pete said yes we would like to put this on. The original plan was to have another theatre involved too. Pete spent a lot of time persuading other theatres to join the Oxy run. There was one agreement from a major theatre to collaborate but sadly they pulled out (don't get me started on that though!) This period went on for a couple of years before Pete said we are going to produce a short run on our own.
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
I suppose writing a song is a similar process. You might finish it but nobody may hear it. It's a calculated risk in the arts sometimes. I guess you have to believe in something yourself enough to finish it.
Once you knew that the New Wolsey Theatre would be putting it on it must have been a great relief and also a vindication of your belief in Oxy.
To be honest it was great news. Mike, Paul and I are lucky that we often have multiple projects in various stages of developement and Oxy was sitting in the ready for an opportunity box. We were all working on other things. And Pete at the New Wolsey has already shown his faith in Oxy. He managed to find a slot at the theatre and a budget to get Oxy up because he really wanted the show to come to life. I think we all immediately cleared diaries. Then came the hardest part of all. The show was on paper. Now we had a production slot that needed more work.The months before the run became another chance to tweak the show.
Was it at this stage that the actual production side started with casting?
Scheduling first. Usually working backwards from the run. But yes we needed actors. We knew we needed a cast of nine. We also knew that eight of them had to play an instrument, Each character has a description and a skill set. We had a great casting agent Debbie whose job is to find us a short list of actors who fit the description. The tricky bit was to cast a younger and older version of each character who could play the same instrument.
How did that work, did you get a short list then hold auditions and across what sort of time was that?
So a number of actors are invited to audition. normally I would be at the first round but Pete told me early on he didn't want me to musically direct so Ben our MD along with Pete and Debbie were at the initial casting. There were two stages. Instrumental prowess and acting ability. I think they wanted to cast the older band first. All of this happened April/May 2017. I attended a recall audition where the initial contenders have been whittled down. I was lucky enough to see the final auditionees for Andy and Brian. Two good friends of mine were up for the parts and they were tremendous. Rob and Sean came in after and they were tremendous too. I was glad I wasn't making the decisions. Pete was right to appoint Ben as I was too close to the show.
Did you see it that way at the time?
Sort of yes. I always think collaboration is the best way forward. Ben did a lot of work from audition to run. There's also a lot of good perspective from Ben as to arrangements. The final batch of songs had keyboards on. We were looking for a keyboard and bass playing female actor. It became obvious to get rid of the keyboards. Something I would have had second thoughts about as MD.
And a keyboardist?
Yes, probably. The second batch of songs had quite a lot of keys and indeed backing vocals which I did myself. It needed an outside ear to pick out the important stuff. There are still a few remnants of the keyboards in the show. For example young Sheena plays a keyboard early on in Act two when establishing her character was classically trained.
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
I wasn't at her audition. I heard she blew everyone away. I knew people at her drama school who said she was amazing. She is! No risk whatsoever I would say.
You've touched on the need of the cast to be able to act as well as to be musically competent. Janet Fullerlove said on the Big Night In Oxy stream that she bought a bass and was told to practise, practise, practise! To what level were the cast already musically adept?
As far as I can recall all band members bar Janet were musicians. Janet learnt the bass for the role. A remarkable feat but she was so good as Elizabeth.
I think the cast were absolutely spot on. Was it difficult in getting the "present day" cast to mirror the young Oxy and the Morons?
Tricky. I think until Act Two it's not an issue. The audience get used to the staging quite quickly. In fact I heard a few cheers at the start of Act Two when the audience realise that now the roles are reversed. I'm not actually sure that the present day cast did mirror the originals. It was more the other way round I think although that's only my perception. Actors when they know they are playing someone real will look for the little traits to mimic. I think there was a little of each cast doing that. The amazing thing was the sort time they had to rehearse and get to know each other. They have to be real bands.
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
The staging itself was something, simple in many ways but did the movable stage give you any headaches or concerns?
You would have to ask Pete and the actors!
Did you have any input during the rehearsal stage or were you having to wait like an expectant father for the premiere so to speak?
Yes but there's a limit to my involvement. Paul and I were at day one of rehearsals. I hadn't met everyone and it's important to connect with the team. We sat in on the reading of the script. Notes were made. That was the first time anyone had heard the words aloud - usually there are workshops before a production but that's punk!
We all had a chat about the show. As some of the story was based on Mike and I the actors asked a few questions and Paul could clarify a few things too. I remember that night Sean (Brian) had to rush back to London to appear in Jesus Christ Superstar in Regents Park. I was going to the show anyway so I too ended up in London. We had a couple of beers after the show ended earlier as pouring rain cut the show short.
I returned home and during the week I would get notes from Ben with suggestions and requests to rewrite stuff. I think Mike was away at this time so it was mainly down to me and Paul. There were a few very last minute tweaks. I then watched a first run thru a week later. It's important not to be too precious as long as it's all going forward in a good direction. I write quite a few shows so the process is well known to me but not being musical director really helped me to gain perspective. The team did an amazing job and Pete was so supportive to his cast and crew. One of the best I would say.
What were the reactions to Oxy from the theatre goers and did you receive any feedback from "the trade"?
I watched the final dress rehearsal and it was very powerful. That night I watched the first show too. My impression was that the audience had taken a gamble. Brand new show. Quite revolutionary staging too. It took about twenty minutes until the audience got it. After that it was a roller coaster. I was watching as a punter but also as a writer. But by mid Act Two I was just a punter. You could feel the audience were totally inside the story, Some were old enough to remember 1978 and had been punks. Some were just theatre goers. Without giving spoilers there was a collective audible "oh" when the twist is revealed and a kind of amused sigh : laugh when the final song is announced. Then a standing ovation. Apparently it happened a few times during the run. The audience numbers started to increase as word of mouth got round. We got great reviews from almost every reviewer including The Stage.
One night I was in there was a small London theatre in who loved it. Again other theatre companies / individuals had been and loved it. However nobody took up the show.
Something Pete Rowe said to me - a show he had similarly encouraged was on a national tour at the same time as Oxy was running. It took seven years to get another life. And that show got into the West End eventually. So you never know.
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
I would say that there are difficulties releasing the songs. All performers gave their permission for the Oxy broadcast. It's something we will explore. The Oxy t shirts were given to us by Janet as a memento but I still wear mine! I would say that's an easy merch product to produce. I'm not in that area of the biz. Mike and I have spoken about something and I'm sure in the coming weeks if we can pull it off everyone asking for Oxy material will be pleased.
That sounds intriguing!
What has the reaction been to Oxy since the broadcast? There's been clips shared of it making news channels in America!
I've been heartened by all the comments. I think we all knew that Oxy was and important and new way of telling a story through a musical. It's had over 4,000 views on YouTube in six days and will be staying up there until the lockdown ends. Before the premiere there was a couple of enquiries from TV. It's a very British story and it certainly could be adapted for the screen. I'm hopeful with the renewed interest that we get a further life for Oxy. If we don't at least more people have seen what a great job the cast and crew made of bringing Oxy to life.
Was it hard getting everyone on board to clear permissions to show it as part of The Big Night In?
Once I had suggested the showing to Mike and Pete it didn't take long really, It was early in the lockdown. Pete took about a week to get the permissions.
Whoever had the idea of involving the front of house team in that broadcast was a genius! That was so fun and great to see!
Mikes idea! Brilliant! And well done to the New Wolsey team for getting it done.
I think we've given Oxy a good insight there....is there anything else you'd like to add in?
No I think you're right. There's seven years of stories mind!
I suppose with hindsight there are areas we would change, rewrite or tweak. We would and already have started to play down the punk angle a bit. I think in these times a bit of positivity is what we need and, rightly or wrongly, punk is seen by some to be a negative thing. For kids like Mike, Paul and I it was liberating. We were given permission to be who we wanted to be. I have no doubt that without punk it's unlikely that any of us would be in the music business. Mike and I were office workers in a small seaside town. How could we get to be on stage in front of thousands? Punk appeared, whipped off the chains and showed us Step 1 - just do it! That's punk! The final monologue of Oxy sums it up. A more life affirming speech you couldn't wish to hear. When Mike and I started the Oxy story we were writing a daft punk rock love story. However with input from Paul and Pete a much more interesting and powerful show emerged. It needed writing and now it's writ. Somewhere in Oxy's story are little bits of Mike, Paul, me and all of us, just trying to get through life as best we can.
Now that's punk!
Exactly!
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| Copyright Mike Kwasniak - used with permission |
Oxy and the Morons photos copyright of Mike Kwasniak and used with his permission
For more information please visit Mike Kwasniak Photography
